(Frugal) Dyed Eggs

At least 5 years ago, I bought an 8-pack of Wilton paste food coloring at Michael's Craft Store with a 40% off coupon. It couldn't have cost more than a few dollars, and has turned out to be one of my best investments - we use them for homemade play dough, homemade birthday cakes and, of course, dyeing Easter eggs. Pink is the only color that is getting low in the pot, and I think that in another year or so I'll have to buy a solo container of that one. The others are still going strong!

We did this after supper, and after bathtime......

Abigail chose to dress for the occasion, while.....

Hannah took a more casual approach to her attire.

We had an abundance of brown eggs this year; our neighbor boy up the hill stopped by two weeks in a row. I didn't remember from last year whether brown eggs took the dye very well -

but here, Hannah shows that for the stronger colors, at least, they worked just fine! I used the lightest eggs of the two dozen we had on hand, just in case.

Homemade Easter Egg Dye

1 tbs white vinegar per dye color desired

1 cup (approx; just eyeball it) boiling water

paste food coloring- as much as will fit on a toothpick when you scrape it in the pot

Mix vinegar, water and dyes (separately per color) in glass containers (plastic will stain) and stir well. Soak hard boiled eggs in dye bath for a few minutes, and:

WAH-LAH!

You just saved a few dollars on packaged dye! Plus, you can dye eggs any time of year with what you have on hand (red, white & blue? green for St. Pats?). Use the egg carton the eggs came in to hold your finished creations.

New Kids on the Block

Something's been brewing in Clifton Forge.....

Two new restaurants opened recently ....

We took the girls here, to Jack Mason's Tavern the other night. This really is a place that has something to offer everyone. The food ranges from appetizers to sandwiches to more gourmet entrees, it includes a kids' menu....and of course, fish and chips in keeping with the pub atmosphere. Prices were reasonable and both the food and the service were great. Anyone would feel comfortable here - the seating included cozy leather armchairs in front of a gas fireplace, bar seating, family-style seating for large parties, tall tables and booths. The game room in the back scores major points with the Ms. PacMan/Galaga video game, a pinball game, dart board and TWO pool tables. (Next visit I'll set the high score on Ms. PacMan; I think I still have it in me). We saw folks from all over the area - representing all walks of life. Jack Mason's reminds me of the little restaurants in Shockhoe Slip in Richmond or in downtown Fairfax.

Frankly, I'm saving my trip to the Old Forge Coffee Company for a "Daddy Day" (when Andy has the girls for a couple hours). I want to linger over coffee or hot chocolate in what looks to be a quiet place full of comfortable chairs and books to peruse. I actually promised to take Hannah here on her own when she masters "tea time manners," a bribe, yes, but this is what's in it for me! Old Forge is right next door to Jack Mason's and is another reason to make downtown Clifton Forge a destination. I'll let you know how my visit goes, but if you've already been or if you make it there before me, comment below to let me know what you like best!

What assets to Clifton Forge and the Alleghany Highlands!

I can (should not) has cheeseburger?

I've been fighting off some nearly uncontrollable cravings lately - and its a big N-O on the obvious question that follows a statement like that. Fact is, I don't know where its coming from myself, but its a dangerous obsession, and, for me, one that borders on sinful.

Its those doggone fast food cheeseburgers! What? That's crazy. Gross, even. No, really!

See, for all of my frugal life, I've always prided myself in avoiding what I see as the scam of "Value Meals" and "$4" burgers introduced by fast food chains. Working in Virginia Beach, I'd slide thorough the Wendy's drive through and get a junior cheeseburger and a small fries, feeling as though I'd cheated the system somehow, getting a lunch but not paying dollars for a full sized cheeseburger.

Then, conscious of my weight, I switched to fast food salads when I ate out. But 'tho I love me a Wendy's Southwestern Taco Salad, the resultant squabbles over which little blond headed girl gets to eat the nacho-flavored crumbs from the chip bag and -really- who gets to lick the sour cream packet, are just too much to bear.

And yes, truthfully, we shouldn't be eating out at all when we're trying to pay down debt. But hold onto your stones. With two little girls and a mama who's often hanging on by her fingernails, those golden arches look surprisingly like a pair of welcoming arms.

Weh-eh-elll, now I see what I've been missing. In a fit of indecision the other day at the register, after I'd already placed an order for breaded, processed, deep fired poultry-ish goodness (?) for the girls, the cashier suggested a "~$4~" cheeseburger for me. What the hek, I was hungry. And it was all downhill from there.

See, the burgers on the value menu have no juice. Dry burgers on dry bread. But the burgers advertised with pictures are full of greasy, juicy goodness. Add a slather of mayo mixed with warm mustard, a splat of ketchup and a hothouse tomato, top with a couple slices of dill and it is a recipe for satisfaction.

For a moment. Several, maybe.

The guilt comes in the evening...lying in bed, wondering where the vague feeling of discomfort is from. And in the morning, when the Fat Jeans, um....fit.

So, if you catch me with a gleam in my eye and a mustard stain on my shirt, please call me on it. Because in my very personal struggle with my weight, fast food ~$4~ cheeseburgers are currently The Enemy.

Preserving the Harvest

Some sweet friends of ours gave us a WM bag full of Keifer pears and a big Ziploc bag of pared apples - both from their backyard trees. Today I finally got around to putting them up. We made applesauce, pear sauce and some pear juice (nectar). Hannah and Abigail helped - some - mostly Abbo ate bits of fruit and draped herself with the peelings, so I spent a lot of time chasing her out of the kitchen.

First we peeled and cored the apples with the apple machine. Its fun to use and saves much time. It probably wastes a little bit more of the flesh than a good paring knife would, but the fun is worth it, and it got them to help. We dunked the sliced apples in a water/lemon juice bath.

Then we cooked the apples down with about 3" of water in the pot. I actually used a mixture of about half backyard apples and half Gala apples, on sale at Kroger this week. But it was so sweet that I didn't need any sugar - again, trying to cut out sugar where I can in our diets.

Our yield for the apples was only 4 pints....so I did pears, too. I used a scant 2/3 cup of sugar for the whole pot:

I drug out my immersion mixer, only to find out that it was broken. It is so handy for stuff, yet it wouldn't spin no matter how much I coaxed it. (HINT, HINT: CHRISTMAS IDEA!!) So the applesauce is chunky - I used the blender to mix up the pears since they tend to be grainy. That's also why I used sugar - to overcome any objections that might arise at suppertime :)

Process for 20 minutes:

And the end product:

I'd say that I put the peels and the cores out in the back yard under the pear tree for the deer, but since its after September 30, the peels and cores are for the rabbits, skunks and squirrels. And crows. And opossums. Some type of animal will be feasting down there tonight!

Leftover Broccoli Soup

Whenever we have mashed potatoes for supper, the girls are glad. Not because I spent 30 minutes trying to get the lumps out, but because for lunch the next day they get broccoli and cheese soup, with the mashers being the main ingredient. Its super easy to make, uses items you have on hand, uses up leftovers (so its tres frugal), and as a bonus, you can slip in other vegetables for extra vitamins. One caveat: my girls love, love, love broccoli, so if you or your kids don't like it, it might not go over as well as it does at our house.

Broccoli and Cheese Soup

leftover mashed potatoes....anywhere from 1/2 cup to 2 cups (this will be the base, so it will determine how much of the other ingredients you use)

broccoli (I got a couple bags on clearance...organic, no less...from Kroger. It was fresh, so I quickly parboiled it a minute or so to soften it up) florets, chopped into bite sized pieces.

1 cup water + 1 chicken bullion cube OR
1 cup chicken stock OR
an equivalent liquid...like broth, granulated bullion, etc.

cheddar cheese - shredded, 1/2 to 1 cup (I only buy cheese when its less than $3 a pound and keep it in the freezer. If I get it in blocks, it crumbles easily when it thaws, but I also try to keep the pre-shredded in there, too.)

Here's How:
Boil water or stock, dissolve bullion in it. Stir in mashed potatoes...if you need it thicker, add instant mashed potatoes until its close to desired thickness. Add broccoli florets (and shredded carrots, peas, or anything else)(you could also puree those veggies to hide 'em if necessary). Stir in the cheese - you want it pretty cheesy, and I like to save a couple sprinkles for on top.

That's it. The cheese will thicken it a little more than the mashed potatoes will....for some reason I always want to add some cooking sherry to it, but I never have it. I think that would just round out the flavor a bit. But when cooking for preschoolers, its probably best to leave the alcohol in the pantry. At least that's my take on it.

Let me know if you make it and if it turns out! It really is great comfort food, and you just about always have the ingredients on hand. Plus, it uses up leftovers, so its great all around!

Chocolate Chip Cookie Recipe

(Adapted from an Amish recipe)

1 cup butter, room temp.
1 cup sugar
1 cup firm packed brown sugar
3 eggs, lightly beaten
1 tsp baking soda
2 cups all purpose flour (I use bread flour for all my ap flour)
1 cup whole wheat flour
3/4 cup oatmeal OR instant oatmeal
1 tsp vanilla extract
1 pkg milk chocolate chips

preheat oven to 375. cream butter and sugar. add eggs and vanilla and mix well. stir dry ingredients except for chips together in a bowl and add to sugar mixture, mixing well. add a handful of flour if dough seems too sticky. mix in chocolate chips. scoop out with a cookie scoop and bake 12-15 minutes. cool on wire racks.

This recipe doubles easily....I don't use salt because I use salted butter, but you could add a tsp of salt if you want. Add some nuts at the end, too, if you want. I have no idea how many it makes...3 dozen?? Who knows. We have dough-eaters here, so I never get an accurate count.

To freeze: scoop dough out onto a cookie sheet and pop it in the freezer. when dough balls freeze, transfer them to a freezer Ziploc bag, label with directions and date, and store.

Pickin' Friends

I'm so tired. See, the day started off at 5:15Am with Abba deciding she was mad that she had been cut off from Mama's milk, so she was going to let me have it bright and early. Then Hannah woke with a bad dream that had resulted in her needing a change of sheets. All this before 5:25AM, as Andy was waking up. Needless to say, he grabbed the lunch I packed and scooted out the door without so much as a glance over his shoulder! I can't say I blame him!

So we rolled around in our semi-awake state until the girls decided at 7:45 they wanted to put on their dress up dresses that MeeMaw gave them and move the party outside to the carport. It was only 58 degrees and they lasted about 8 minutes. So, I put them to work until it was time to load up and go berry picking.

We met some friends up at Stonewall, a central location here in Callaghan, and then four vehicles - including 5 mamas and 11 kids trekked over to Rennick, West Virginia. Never heard of Rennick? Its about 40 minutes north of Lewisburg - the northernmost reaches of Greenbrier County. We had a great time - picked for about an hour and a half, and I think all of the kids just about made it that long. We settled our debts with the proprietors and enjoyed a picnic on blankets under the shade trees. It really was a lot of fun. I don't know how many lbs. of berries I got - three heavy WalMart bags, though. Hannah picked a surprising amount! (Although I tacked an extra few bucks onto our bill for the amount that didn't take the detour to the bag....) I'm chugging coffee and Mountain Dew so I can stay up and process them, but first things first, right?

Here's a picture of the kiddos from today....Sabrena took the rest of the pictures (daggone if I didn't forget to charge my camera battery), and she'll post them on Facebook, so I'll post a link here, I guess.

Hannah and Abba just came in here and laughed when they saw the picture, "That was fun, Mama...can I have some blueberries?" "Booberrys!"

Pork Recipe

In honor of Swine Flu Hysteria, I thought I'd share a delicious pork barbeque recipe that I enjoyed with my family last night. (You do know, don't you, that you don't get H1N1 from eating pork, right? Anyways, its got enough vinegar and a long cook time that no heebeegeebies could survive!) I would like to say that it rivals Pierce's BBQ in Williamsburg for taste, but you'll have to be the judge.

small pork butt, pork roast or country style pork ribs (not spare ribs)
1/4 cup apple cider vinegar

Cook for 4-5 hours on high in crock pot (if frozen - or cook 6-8 hours on low). Remove meat, set aside to cool. Remove drippings, put in bowl for fat to congeal in fridge.
When meat is cool enough to touch, separate meat from fat, bone, etc. and return to crock pot. Pull apart big chunks, but don't have to shred it at this point. Discard fat, add juices to juice in bowl in fridge.

Add to meat in pot:
small can (8oz) tomato sauce
1/4 cup apple cider vinegar
1/4 cup brown sugar
1/4 cup molasses
several-to-many dashes Tabasco or Texas Pete (you want to taste the heat as you swallow, but not in every bite)
sprinkling of salt over it all

stir well to mix

turn crock pot to low - cook for at least 2 hours;
when fat in fridge has hardened, discard the fat and pour juices back into pot. Stir. Cook awhile longer to get all those good flavors just right...then enjoy.

Let me know if you made it and what you think!

my JOB

I thought I’d write and share some about MY job. Andy and I both feel that God wants me to be a SAHM (stay at home mom), and therefore, with His help, I have had to develop some new skills to save us money to enable this to happen. The first place I really looked at was clothing for the girls. To that end, we make use of yard sales, hand-me-downs (mostly Hannah to Abba now, but when I was in Tidewater, my pal BF kept me stocked – those clothes are now on kid #4!) and thrift stores. Thrift stores are limited in Alleghany, so when we go visit family in Tidewater, we make the most of our trip and hit Thrift Store City (“sigh”- Anna!!) and a new one over near Bayside High School, my old stompin’ grounds.

That part is easy and fun, but it was the weekly grind of grocery shopping that really had me stymied for awhile. Once I got the hang of it, however, it is where I can save my family even more and make our dollars go farther. Here are some of my tricks:

First, we have a budget. We aim for $75/week for groceries…usually that runs over, but never over $100. By groceries I mean basically whatever we can buy in Food Lion, so it includes dipes, vitamins, cleaning products, paper goods, etc. Some folks who figure out a grocery budget separate some of that stuff, but I include it. I hope to change this to a cash-only envelope system so that if we have money left over it goes into next weeks’ envelope, savings, or whatnot. We’re just not there yet. I need a small desk of my own, I think, to better organize myself here.

Second, before I shop, I make three lists. The first is an ongoing, “we’re almost out of” list that’s posted on the fridge. The second is my “stockpile” list, which includes shelf-stable or freezable items we keep an inventory of. I research these to get the best price (with coupons+sales) and buy in bulk when I get them at a great price. By stockpiling, I am not stuck running out to buy, say, tomato soup not on sale, because I can wait a couple months for it to go on sale and buy 10 cans. The third list is also one I research well by finding internet coupons, newspaper coupons and alerts on deals from some of my favorite money-saving websites. These are bonus items – can’t pass up deals - such as the Nestle hot chocolate mix I got from Wal-Mart on Friday – it was $2/2 packages. I had two $1/off coupons, so I got 2 boxes for FREE. Also, a $30 Bayer Contour 2 Blood Glucose Monitor at CVS…it was on sale for $30 and I had a $30 coupon, so it was free….I don’t need, it but I will donate it to the church or a local adult home…but, even better, I had a CVS coupon for $5 off a $30 purchase, so I got $5 back – meaning they paid me $5 to take that glucose monitor. Pretty cool! So, this third list is stuff I might not be looking for or it might be something I don’t normally buy, but if it is 75% + off, then I will get it as long as I stay in budget. I match up the store circulars with the coupons I have on file, then I put my lists (all written down on one piece of paper so I can see it all at a glance) at the front of my coupon notebook and off I go to the store.

Third, I organize my shopping trips. I have three stores to choose from: Food Lion, Wal-Mart and Kroger. Kroger is about 12 miles further to drive to than the other two, but it is right near Andy’s office. If we go there, we usually make a day of it and pack a picnic lunch so we girls can get some extra Daddy-o time. Some weeks I will only go to one store, but other times I’ll hit all three, especially if Food Lion has a 3-day only sale. I shop when the girls are in good moods, well-rested, or else I leave Hannah home with Andy. I am less likely to impulse buy with a list, and I stick to my 50% rule – it has to be 50% off (with coupon) if I’m going to buy a non-necessity. I carry my coupon notebook into the store with me in case I come across an unadvertised sale – or better yet, find something on clearance (like the True North Almond Clusters I found at Wal-Mart once for $1.50/bag, normally about $4 a bag and I had 3 $1 off coupons! Gotta love it!)

My reward? I get great satisfaction knowing that I have saved money and am able to contribute in a tangible way to our economic goals. I generally save about 40-50% on our total grocery bill ( I like shopping at Kroger because it shows at the bottom of the receipt how much you save, and I hold off giving my MVP card till the end at FL so it takes it all off at once after it has been subtotaled). It is also a challenge and a little mental gymnastics. I hope that I am teaching my girls the value of Daddy-o’s work – that we don’t just go and randomly get things, but that we are good stewards of our money. I hope that I am teaching them that we are disciplined in what we do and don’t buy, that we wait and do without some of the “fluff” sometimes – but our needs are always met. I hope that they see what I do as important so that they will be inspired to take their household management jobs seriously – be they married, single or still living at home. Money management is something that I just don’t have a firm grip on. By staying in a budget and working hard to pay off credit card debt (a whole ‘nother post) we are showing them and ourselves that our actions have consequences, and we are indeed slaves to our debt at this point.
Whew, this was a long post. But I just got back from Food Lion where the register rang up $105.10, I handed over my coupons and my MVP card and it flickered to $55.45, so I thought I’d share with you how I did it.

Have any questions? Want more ideas/tips? Wish I’d just go away?? J

transitions

Hey! Would you keep us in prayer when you think about it? We are going through some transitions and as we all know, sometimes change is difficult!

We're trying to transition Hannah away from her pass (pacifier), and yes, yes, yes, I know she will be a great big girl of 4 next month, but nonetheless.....she has a very strong attachment to it and it has been very difficult. For her mom and dad. See, I thought they were all gone, but then she spied one she had lost perched prominently on her car seat in Daddy-o's truck. Well, its got some holes in the plastic and its the absolute last one in the house so she is guarding it ferociously. And I do mean ferociously.

Andy is transitioning to a new medication regimen for his HBP. Now, he may not like me blogging about this, but maybe if you see him or talk to him you can ask him how he is doing. We've got a new doctor who is REALLY good - (Dr. Scott in Covington, for all you local readers!) - and who has been very diligent in keeping track of Andy's progress. Still, changing medications is physically painful for him - makes him feel like he has the flu or something.

If you know my daughters, you know that one of them can (please allow me to switch to my professional social worker mode:) exhibit some behaviors that her parents find challenging. As the parent in close proximity to said child for the majority of waking hours, I can report that "challenging" has many defintions and includes a wide and varying range of emotions!

Thank goodness that I am perfect, so I have no issues of my own to work on.

YEAH RIGHT!

But right now, I can't focus on me (sigh.....), so I'll just dedicate all of my time and energies to my family. [Placing palm of right hand to forehead and leaning back in chair, closing eyes....] Ohhhhhhhh, the sacrifices I make as the Mama!

Seriously, though. GOD IS GOOD! And I can't figure out why, but He has been so good to us over the last several years. I mean - I can't figure out why I should receive blessings when I am such "a wretch" and why others who seek Him have the struggles they do. I really have been blessed with Andy, Hannah and Abigail. Although we each have our own challenges in relationships with our personalities, characters and so on, I am always thrilled when I think that God planned for us all to be together and that He has knit us together as a family.

Better go. Gotta get suppah started and the upstairs freezer cleaned out. Can't fit anything else in it and I am afraid of being knocked out by a pot roast when I open the door - ack!

Tonight's supper: pork butt roast in the crock pot with pepper and seasoned salt, green beans from this summer's garden, mac&cheese from the stockpile, apple sauce from the stockpile and bread pudding using up (hopefully) most of the frozen bread out of the upstairs freezer for dessert. YUM!

please disregard....

the recipe I posted last.
THIS
is the recipe to end all recipes.
THAT
one stuck mercilessly to the pan, and while it tasted good, was more trouble than this, which is infinitely better.
IF
you come to our home for supper, you can count that this will be the dessert. It is that good.

DULCE de LECHE Pie
1 graham cracker crust
3 cans sweetened condensed milk

Fill crock pot 3/4 high with water. Set on high. After an hour or two it should be simmering, if not outright boiling.
Peel labels off cans of sc milk. Place cans in crock pot - do not open, do not poke holes in them, just put them in whole. Without labels.
Ensure that water is covering cans, if not, add more so they are covered.
Place lid on crock pot.
Once the water begins to boil again, start your kitchen timer.
Boil for 3 hours.
Yes, you are reading this right. You have 3 unopened cans of sweetened condensed milk in your crock pot, boiling away for 3 hours.
Take 'em out after 3 hours and let them cool to the touch - or put them in the fridge for later.
When you are ready to make the pie, use a can opener to open cans. The contents will be a pleasing caramel color. Stir (whip) with a fork until they are smooth. Pour into graham cracker crust. Hint: cut off other end of can so the contents will slide out easier. Do the same with all 3 cans Hint: I only needed 2 1/2 cans for my crust. Your mileage may vary.
Chill pie for at least 1 hour, preferable a couple.
Slice thin....this is VERY rich and is delicious with a cup of black coffee on the side.

Takes awhile, but how easy is that? Let me know if you made it and what you thought!

noise machines

I got sidetracked again.
The point I was going to make about the sound of the rain night before last was about noise machines for sleep. I don't sleep very well - often. I'm probably being stalked by a need to entertain the terrible twos of my life: diet and exercise, but that's another tangent I'd rather not discuss right now. Especially since I have a pie in the oven.
My mom uses a nose machine....TYPO....excuse me...a NOISE machine (jeez!) to help her get to sleep. She's used one for years and even travels with it on overnights. My dad uses a noise machine too, but I will stop that discussion right there because I may spill some family secrets. Like the why of why he uses one. Anyways, my mom and my sister used to get my niece to sleep by running a window unit air conditioner on "fan" in a darkened room. Poor Baby Jordan was out like the dead! So noise and sleep aids have been one of my family values for years.
I've tried noise machines. The problem is I end up listening too hard - I begin to drift off to sleep, only to pick up on the "click" where the loop of the intended relaxing sound ends. Like the "rain" setting on a machine I had once. It was about a 5-second loop...."patter, drip, drip, patter, drip, dr-click!- patter, drip, drip..." and I would lay there and count the repeats. No dice.
The "ocean waves" setting wasn't much better. Way back when we used to saute ourselves in baby oil and lie baking on the sand (oh, my gosh. HOW DUMB WAS THAT? And me a redhead.), I'd count the waves at Sandbridge in Virginia Beach. Every seventh - or occasionally sixth - wave is bigger than the rest in the series. There is a longer pause as the water sucks back to gather for a breaker. Noise machine engineers failed to take this into account. Most machines I've heard either don't caputre the cycle or have the cycle too short - every 4th or 5th wave was the big one ("click"!). Perhaps a surfer's dream come true, but it wasn't helping me catch any zzzzzzzs. I'd just lay there feeling anxious. (In case that grammar is incorrect, I would lie there, too.)
Before I ever purchased (gasp!) a noise machine, in an attempt to make do with what I had, I frugally set the clock radio to the far right wing....er, I mean...SIDE of the dial (of course! you don't think I'd go over to the FAR LEFT, do you?!) to enjoy some cost-free "white noise." All was well and good until late one cloudy night... in that place halfway between awake and asleep I about wet the bed when I heard a heavily-accented man speaking statically in a foreign language from my bedside table. Must have been one of those Spanish language stations out of New York that we pick up when we travel late-nite. Well, adios to the clock radio idea.
So I'm back to the not sleeping. Probably for several weeks if I don't raid the melatonin or spend several hours in the National Forest. But if that's what it takes, then I'll.....
Well, alas, it is 8 minutes till midnight and I am waiting for Andy to come home from a rescue call. I am getting sleepy so I think I will close for now. Before I go...
I made the easiest and most delicious dessert for a cookout we're going to tomorrow at my pal Jessica's. After that last paragraph I took it out of the oven to cool and it smells delicious.
Want the recipe?

Easy Graham Cracker Cookies. Or pie.
2 1/2 cups graham cracker crumbs
1 can sweetened condensed milk
6 oz. semisweet chocolate chips

mix all of these together with a spatula. pour/spoon into 9x9 or 8x8 square baking dish. bake at 350 for 30-35 minutes. cool. slice and enjoy.

garden

Here's some pictures of our garden....

That ginormous thing in the foreground is a a sunflower!

Here's a back view....gourds are growing up on what used to be the chicken yard fence, and those are a couple dozen sunflowers beside the back wall under the window.

We've got - I think I remember right - 23 tomato plants, lettuce, cucumbers, zuccini, bush beans, radishes (Hannah's), birdhouse gourds, green gourds and potatoes.

We picked these this morning. I have two big buckets of these cucumbers now marinating in lime, awaiting pickling tomorrow! Think I'll pickle the peppers, too, come to think about it, and probably some of the beans, too. I LOVE pickled green beans....I mean, I LOVE anything pickled!

Except pigs' feet. Haven't gone there - yet!!